So 'Shitting Bull' Warren wants everyone else to pay for the mistakes of dumb people who got into debt over a Gender Studies degree, in essence. Accountability is the bane of the irresponsible.
College is a scam at this point. $120,000 to go to Yale and get lectured about white priviledge and LGBTHIV+ faggotry. No, thank you. I went to trade school, paid $8,000 and made it all back in 3 months. If people are dumb enough to get into crushing debth for a useless degree in Feminist Dance Therapy, let them deal with the consequences.
If even I have trouble, being either under qualified or over qualified, imagine those with lesser degrees trying to get a job. See my other replies to document the fraud on several levels. Illegal change in my existing loan contract by removal of the bankruptcy provision was one. Illegal price-gouging is still... well... illegal. Why do you remain silent on HUGE price gouging in higher Education if smaller price gouging in other things is routinely prosecuted? Double standard do I smell? Things like that are why people get ignored, even when they make some good points. Double standards are not just immoral, but also stupid.
The best solution is to end the myth that college is worth the investment to society. Imagine if all these kids started their careers four or more years earlier rather than wasting the time at school. They would have earned hundreds of thousands of dollars rather than now owing it! Our society is broken with how it uses a diploma as a litmus test for employment.
Universities and colleges are worse than useless now -- they are actively harmful. Student debt cancellation would enrich these anti-white, anti-asian, anti-nation institutions while transferring more of the wealth of taxpayers to same.
I think they should be defunded entirely. Let charities award scholarships to trade school so the student can perform a valued function in society instead of another indoctrinated intellectual incapable of doing anything useful.
I like the idea of colleges being liable for loan defaults. Would stop some of the toxicity immediately as the useless departments would be weeded out rapido
It would also encourage those colleges to help their graduates find a good job that makes use of the education they have just received. It is possible to have received a quality education and still not know what industries might be interested in their talents. That's what happened to me. It is still an ongoing problem for me, since all the industries I can think of have been corrupted by some form of identity politics or Marxist sort of political agenda, and none of them seem to be willing or able to do anything about it. Why would I want to work for a company that can't even help themselves out of the snake pit they are in? This is why in my desperation I have turned to this very platform, since it allows me the chance to refine a writing craft and so ultimately I might be able to get paid for that effort. But up until now, I have been thinking and thinking and thinking, reading broadly in multiple disciplines, trying to understand for myself why the world is so screwed up and what we might possibly do about any of it. That brings me to why I have started to follow styx on this platform specifically. He seems to have figured out the game. He knows how to make a profit going his own way, world be damned. And it is paradoxically this attitude that will save the world, because we need more cowboys like that around here, and he is setting a good example for us all in showing us how to do it.
I wonder if there will ever be a course in an American University that teaches us how to be a cowboy... the icon of American Individualism. That would pretty much put an end to their identity politics agendas. It doesn't matter who you are, you can learn to do it for yourself. If you have good role models, that is. Yay Styx!
I can't take credit for the idea. Not sure where I got it from, but if it wasn't Nassim Taleb then it was probably Crowder because (along with Shapiro and Milo) he was my gateway into following politics at the end of 2017.
I remember a video of some dad confronting her during presidental race with a question "I've managed to save money for my daughter's tuition by working hard. If you're going to pass student loan forgiveness as a president would it repay me what I've spent from my own pocket?" to which she replied "no". To me this is the core of this issue and it is plain unfair.
one must be responsible for one's choices; and pay the cost for their decisions. I paid for my children's education. i will not pay for anyone else's. have fun folks.
Our society has indoctrinated children into thinking college is a mandatory prerequisite to obtaining a career. Yet many students are too immature to understand what career they wish to achieve and so they go off to college and meander across different majors and finally, after taking out many loans, get a degree in a worthless field. A solution to this would be mandatory military service after high school. Time to grow mentally and realize personal responsibility. Afterwards, use the GI bill and a more focused mind to minimize the need to take out loans.
Too many companies are also requiring "a degree" for jobs that don't need them. My previous employer required everyone to have a college degree, even the receptionist. This was an IT sales company and most of the people had degrees in stuff like english or history. We have diluted the job market into a bachelors being the new high school diploma.
Who will raise today’s children? How many two-parent families? How many families with both parents working? The children are turned over to leftist teachers to raise and grow up thinking the world owes them. They’re taking out student loans with possibly no intention to pay them back. They expect someone else to take care of them. That’s why mandatory military training is ideal for this generation. I too served (USMC 1968 - 1971) and it was one of the best decisions of my life because I needed that discipline.
A draftee army, combined with a Stalinist purge of the military, thanks to critical race theory, will result in a massive body count for the US in it's next war (think eastern front Soviet Union losses- commissars marching men into machine gun fire).
Who will raise them?
Start local- like the conservatives are doing with politics.
Economic incentives are the easiest way to move the market. America needs to improve it’s STEM science position to remain competitive militarily and economically.
Make it cheaper to be a scientist, and you will get more of them.
Their developments will further the market, and national security with new innovations.
Whenever a government has seized a people’s goods, and thrown those people out. The industry that those people specialize in, develops wherever they settle. While the wealth seized from them is gone instantly. Intelligence is the driver/generator of wealth- not soft philosophy or sociology science.
True, honestly the best solution is to get the federal government out of the student loan business, then colleges will have to lower their prices to what it was in the 70s when it was very affordable. We'd see a lot more people becoming scientists and majoring in Stem.
Also I think we should get rid of all the useless majors, like gender studies, lesbian dance theory, and stuff like that that doesn't lead you anywhere, also get rid of general education requirements, it basically wastes your first two years of college. You should be able to get started on your major right away.
Like mine... My degree, and that with HONOURS and a triple major, was in the hard sciences, and yet even I am unable to find work to pay it back. Proof:
If even I have trouble, being either under qualified or over qualified, imagine those with lesser degrees trying to get a job. See my other replies to document the fraud on several levels. PLZ FOLLOW ALL LINKS at https://ContractWithAmerica2.com to see full story.
Additionally, I did not (do not) mesn any insult or disrespect by my sarcastic assessing you as Einstein, but rather as boldface emphasis or an exclamation point. Gordon Wayne Watts
We need a fairly large cadre of our population educated in the classics and humanities as curators, so to say, of the accumulated knowledge, discoveries and accomplishments of those who have come before us from which our present generation may benefit.
To be fair, in a lot of places like where I used to live in Northern Virginia, it was much cheaper to own a home than rent. I lived in the cheapest apartment complex in the area and was my rent was raised to $1400 a month. I bought a slightly bigger 1 bedroom condo literally across the street and my mortgage was $800. Plus taxes and HOA, it was about $1200 a month and I was building equity. But, student loan debt is basically irrelevant to that problem. If I could afford $1400 a month with student loan debt, then I could afford $1200 a month with student loan debt. And with all the first time home buyer programs available, it's not like they need to save up for a down payment. So cancelling student loan debt has zero to do with affording a home.
It's not an issue. I'm saying that if these people are already paying rent, then their student loans have nothing to do with them affording a house like Sen Warren is suggesting. Cancelling their loans wouldn't suddenly make housing more affordable.
yeah I never got into student loan debt cause I developed schizophrenia so had to deal with that. I wish they would bring jobs back to america like have us making things again. I am lucky cause my meds keep me sane without them I am not myself and many people like me only get worse over time but things are good for me mentally. I can't imagine having mental illness and student loan debt.
News Flash, Einstein: STUDENT BORROWERS HAVE RE-PAID ALL STUDENT DEBT -- TWICE and THEN SOME: Yes, you read correctly: The first time was when taxpayers (which included student borrowers) repaid colleges in full when -- due to a little-known provision of the Affordable Care Act, signed into law in 2010 -- taxpayers PURCHAED (yes, BOUGHT) all federally-held student debt. (Thus, the debt has been paid in full, and cancellation would cost nothing.) The 2ND time the debt was re-paid? Students have repaid taxpayers $1.22 for EVERY $1.00 that taxpayers have lent them, and this at illegally-inflated costs, to boot. (I add that qualifier because many people pay more than 100% on loans due to interest – car loans, house loans, etc. – but NONE of these are illegally-inflated principle costs, which are almost impossible to pay even before interest/fees.)
Student borrows have not repaid their debt if it is still collectively owned by ALL tax payers... If my money bought someone else's debt, the borrow didn't pay it off, they just owe me now instead of their previous lender. Saying they have re-paid already and cancelling their debt would cost nothing is transferring my wealth to them and saying it's a zero sum game because the collective amount of money between the two of us is still the same.
With all due respect, you did NOT read my DOCUMENTED PROOF of my claim: Students have WELL OVER PAID BACK taxpayers. I am a right-wing nut and Personal responsibility Conservative Republican Christian, but I oppose cheating illegal price-gouging, and excessive taxation, with the "tuition = tax" equation proved true by both Sen. Rick Scott's (R-FL) claim that tuition is a tax AND that of other Conservative heavy weights. As an aside, when GOP lawmakers are double standard hypocrites on student loan bankruptcy Uniformity (not a free handout, but rather a Constitutional guaranteed right, see Article I sec 8 cl 4, the UNIFORMITY CLAUSE hello?), we lose to baby-killing, Free Handout, Free College, loan forgiveness, open borders, Liberal tax/spend Democrats. Shoulda listened to ole Flash... GORDON WAYNE WATTS, in hindsight.
Sir, I did read your document and I clicked on both links you posted to make sure. I also read the sources linked on the contractwithamerica2 page. To quote, "The first time was when taxpayers (which included student borrowers) repaid colleges in full when -- due to a little-known provision of the Affordable Care Act, signed into law in 2010 -- taxpayers PURCHAED (yes, BOUGHT) all federally-held student debt. (Thus, the debt has been paid in full, and cancellation would cost nothing.)". As I said above, this is not the student borrower re-paying their loans. Just because the college or lending institution was paid, does not mean the loan itself was repaid. Surely you have had a mortgage that was purchased from the original lender and assumed by a new lender yes? When the new lender buys your mortgage, we do not consider the loan as paid, you just now make your payments to the new lender. In this case, the new lender is the federal government and all taxpayers. The borrower has not repaid the loan, they just owe someone else.
As for the second "reason", that is the fault of the borrow as well to fail to understand the terms of their loans. Take the example from the Reuters source of the "husband of a social worker" that originally borrowed $13,000 in the 80's and now owes over $70K. Assuming he took the loan in 1985 with an interest rate of 6.5% APR, which is not that crazy, he would have owed $71,184 at the time the article was written. That might sound ridiculous but that same $13,000 would $35,585 just from inflation. Students paying back $1.22 for every $1 borrowed is actually fairly low in my opinion given the long terms and the fact that most loans do not require you to start paying back until a period after you have finished school. The Bankruptcy Abuse Act issue is another story...
I do believe college loans are a predatory practice because students do not understand the terms they are signing up for and are just told that they will be successful if they go to college. This is false advertising at best.
Your point is logically correct: Just because taxpayers repaid colleges and universities, that's no guarantee that students repaid taxpayers, but respectfully: You overlooked both the FORBES and REUTERS references which document that students not only repaid taxpayers, but OVER PAID taxpayers, and that at an illegally inflated principal, not even counting interest and fees, only some of which pass the strait face non-usury smell test. That being the case, any further billing is overcharge. That also doesn't account for various Constitutional violations of existing loan contracts when existing contracts illegally had bankruptcy terms altered!
Can you point me to where the Forbes and Reuters references say the principle was illegally inflated? And what do you mean by that? That the cost of tuition has risen faster than inflation or that the principle balance was raised during the life of the loan? The first, while scummy, is certainly not illegal and is an issue with the consumer. The second I have seen no reference to in any of the articles. As I pointed out above, small loans with moderate single digit interest rates can balloon out of control very rapidly when no payments are made for the first several years. If you are referring to the "$1.22 for every $1 borrowed", then I don't consider that overpayment. There is a cost to borrowing money. It's a service. Would you get your oil changed and expect them to only charge you for the oil and filter and do the work for free? It is the same with loans. The principle is the product and the interest is the service charge. You will always have to pay back more than you borrowed on any loan... It seems you are attributing a lack of the understand by the borrow of what they are getting into as an illegal practice by the lenders. Based on the average interest rate and life of these loans, recovering 120% on a defaulted loan that you would have made a 200%+ return on had the loan been paid out according to the terms is still a loss of sorts. In the "husband of a social worker" example for instance, $1.22 for every $1 borrowed is $15,860 recovered. But the inflation value of the original $13,000 today is $35,585. So despite recovering $1.22 for every $1 borrowed, the lender has actually lost $19,725 in buying power.
My sister, for an example of what I think is unacceptable, took out massive loans to live off while getting her degree in veterinary medicine. She took out nearly $300k. When she graduated, that balance had already grown to $450k+ due to accruing interest over the 5-6 years she had the loans and was making no payments. She entered into a payment plan based on the amount she was making. The payment plan allowed her to make minimum payments that were smaller than the interest due. As such, the balance of the loan continued to grow as she was making payments against it. Today she owes closer to $600K and will never pay it off. She is banking entirely on her loans being forgiven after 10 years of federal service. Lenders, the govt in this case, should not be allowed to let that happen. The minimum payment must be one that will pay off the loan according to the original terms. If they can't pay it, then they default on the loan. I will agree with you that there are a lot of scummy things that happen with college loans, like my sister's example and the bankruptcy terms, that do not happen with other loans. But most loans are also backed by something physical, such as a home, that can be repossessed. In terms of a degree, they are only backed by your future earning potential. Lenders should be held liable for lending amounts that are far beyond the value the degree will provide in terms of future earnings.
First, I apologize for overlooking your acknowledgment of both the 1.22 repayment factor and the deceptive advertising aka deceptive lending issue. I'm at the doctor office in the waiting room and distracted. But to answer your question about the price gouging, no the FORBES and REUTERS article don't address that. See, instead, the subsections 5. Price-gouging and 8. COLLEGE was once free:
It college was once Free, but is now SUPER unaffordable, that's prima facia de facto and damning proof of price-gouging. You might read the whole website and/or PDF print / download it if you have time.
(-: Thx 4 having an open mind. The truth is out there. :-)
Do any of these college educated people with liberal arts degrees and thousands of debt have any skills after college to start a business or are they going to be employees
So 'Shitting Bull' Warren wants everyone else to pay for the mistakes of dumb people who got into debt over a Gender Studies degree, in essence. Accountability is the bane of the irresponsible.
College is a scam at this point. $120,000 to go to Yale and get lectured about white priviledge and LGBTHIV+ faggotry. No, thank you. I went to trade school, paid $8,000 and made it all back in 3 months. If people are dumb enough to get into crushing debth for a useless degree in Feminist Dance Therapy, let them deal with the consequences.
yea, trade schools are very underrated, whereas universities are very overrated
My degree, and that with HONOURS and a triple major, was in the hard sciences, and yet even I am unable to find work to pay it back. Proof:
https://gordonWAYNEwatts.com/education
Or
https://GordonWatts.com/education
If even I have trouble, being either under qualified or over qualified, imagine those with lesser degrees trying to get a job. See my other replies to document the fraud on several levels. Illegal change in my existing loan contract by removal of the bankruptcy provision was one. Illegal price-gouging is still... well... illegal. Why do you remain silent on HUGE price gouging in higher Education if smaller price gouging in other things is routinely prosecuted? Double standard do I smell? Things like that are why people get ignored, even when they make some good points. Double standards are not just immoral, but also stupid.
The best solution is to end the myth that college is worth the investment to society. Imagine if all these kids started their careers four or more years earlier rather than wasting the time at school. They would have earned hundreds of thousands of dollars rather than now owing it! Our society is broken with how it uses a diploma as a litmus test for employment.
If students loans don't make you productive enough to society that you can afford to pay back the loan, you don't deserve a loan in the first place.
Universities and colleges are worse than useless now -- they are actively harmful. Student debt cancellation would enrich these anti-white, anti-asian, anti-nation institutions while transferring more of the wealth of taxpayers to same.
I think they should be defunded entirely. Let charities award scholarships to trade school so the student can perform a valued function in society instead of another indoctrinated intellectual incapable of doing anything useful.
I like the idea of colleges being liable for loan defaults. Would stop some of the toxicity immediately as the useless departments would be weeded out rapido
It would also encourage those colleges to help their graduates find a good job that makes use of the education they have just received. It is possible to have received a quality education and still not know what industries might be interested in their talents. That's what happened to me. It is still an ongoing problem for me, since all the industries I can think of have been corrupted by some form of identity politics or Marxist sort of political agenda, and none of them seem to be willing or able to do anything about it. Why would I want to work for a company that can't even help themselves out of the snake pit they are in? This is why in my desperation I have turned to this very platform, since it allows me the chance to refine a writing craft and so ultimately I might be able to get paid for that effort. But up until now, I have been thinking and thinking and thinking, reading broadly in multiple disciplines, trying to understand for myself why the world is so screwed up and what we might possibly do about any of it. That brings me to why I have started to follow styx on this platform specifically. He seems to have figured out the game. He knows how to make a profit going his own way, world be damned. And it is paradoxically this attitude that will save the world, because we need more cowboys like that around here, and he is setting a good example for us all in showing us how to do it.
I wonder if there will ever be a course in an American University that teaches us how to be a cowboy... the icon of American Individualism. That would pretty much put an end to their identity politics agendas. It doesn't matter who you are, you can learn to do it for yourself. If you have good role models, that is. Yay Styx!
That's an excellent idea Albert.
I can't take credit for the idea. Not sure where I got it from, but if it wasn't Nassim Taleb then it was probably Crowder because (along with Shapiro and Milo) he was my gateway into following politics at the end of 2017.
I remember a video of some dad confronting her during presidental race with a question "I've managed to save money for my daughter's tuition by working hard. If you're going to pass student loan forgiveness as a president would it repay me what I've spent from my own pocket?" to which she replied "no". To me this is the core of this issue and it is plain unfair.
She replied no and then laughed in his face. She is crazy.
one must be responsible for one's choices; and pay the cost for their decisions. I paid for my children's education. i will not pay for anyone else's. have fun folks.
Our society has indoctrinated children into thinking college is a mandatory prerequisite to obtaining a career. Yet many students are too immature to understand what career they wish to achieve and so they go off to college and meander across different majors and finally, after taking out many loans, get a degree in a worthless field. A solution to this would be mandatory military service after high school. Time to grow mentally and realize personal responsibility. Afterwards, use the GI bill and a more focused mind to minimize the need to take out loans.
Too many companies are also requiring "a degree" for jobs that don't need them. My previous employer required everyone to have a college degree, even the receptionist. This was an IT sales company and most of the people had degrees in stuff like english or history. We have diluted the job market into a bachelors being the new high school diploma.
I was in the military- we don’t want national service, or the draft because of the massive discipline problems it creates.
Raise children right, and teach them critical thinking- not critical race theory, and you won’t beg the military to repair your children
Who will raise today’s children? How many two-parent families? How many families with both parents working? The children are turned over to leftist teachers to raise and grow up thinking the world owes them. They’re taking out student loans with possibly no intention to pay them back. They expect someone else to take care of them. That’s why mandatory military training is ideal for this generation. I too served (USMC 1968 - 1971) and it was one of the best decisions of my life because I needed that discipline.
A draftee army, combined with a Stalinist purge of the military, thanks to critical race theory, will result in a massive body count for the US in it's next war (think eastern front Soviet Union losses- commissars marching men into machine gun fire).
Who will raise them?
Start local- like the conservatives are doing with politics.
I wouldn’t mind forgiving some student debt- but ONLY in STEM fields....
yea that makes somewhat sense, definitely not for any gender studies degree or other useless degrees though
Economic incentives are the easiest way to move the market. America needs to improve it’s STEM science position to remain competitive militarily and economically.
Make it cheaper to be a scientist, and you will get more of them.
Their developments will further the market, and national security with new innovations.
Whenever a government has seized a people’s goods, and thrown those people out. The industry that those people specialize in, develops wherever they settle. While the wealth seized from them is gone instantly. Intelligence is the driver/generator of wealth- not soft philosophy or sociology science.
True, honestly the best solution is to get the federal government out of the student loan business, then colleges will have to lower their prices to what it was in the 70s when it was very affordable. We'd see a lot more people becoming scientists and majoring in Stem.
Also I think we should get rid of all the useless majors, like gender studies, lesbian dance theory, and stuff like that that doesn't lead you anywhere, also get rid of general education requirements, it basically wastes your first two years of college. You should be able to get started on your major right away.
Like mine... My degree, and that with HONOURS and a triple major, was in the hard sciences, and yet even I am unable to find work to pay it back. Proof:
https://gordonWAYNEwatts.com/education
Or
https://GordonWatts.com/education
If even I have trouble, being either under qualified or over qualified, imagine those with lesser degrees trying to get a job. See my other replies to document the fraud on several levels. PLZ FOLLOW ALL LINKS at https://ContractWithAmerica2.com to see full story.
I posted the wrong link, Tarl -- my apologies. It should read:
https://ContractWithAmerica2.com/#PaidInFull
Additionally, I did not (do not) mesn any insult or disrespect by my sarcastic assessing you as Einstein, but rather as boldface emphasis or an exclamation point. Gordon Wayne Watts
We need a fairly large cadre of our population educated in the classics and humanities as curators, so to say, of the accumulated knowledge, discoveries and accomplishments of those who have come before us from which our present generation may benefit.
lets just face it, it is not about helping the students, its about kickbacks to the aristocracy.
To be fair, in a lot of places like where I used to live in Northern Virginia, it was much cheaper to own a home than rent. I lived in the cheapest apartment complex in the area and was my rent was raised to $1400 a month. I bought a slightly bigger 1 bedroom condo literally across the street and my mortgage was $800. Plus taxes and HOA, it was about $1200 a month and I was building equity. But, student loan debt is basically irrelevant to that problem. If I could afford $1400 a month with student loan debt, then I could afford $1200 a month with student loan debt. And with all the first time home buyer programs available, it's not like they need to save up for a down payment. So cancelling student loan debt has zero to do with affording a home.
What is the issue then? If you can pay 1200 a month and your student loan debt then just do it you don’t need the student loans cancelled
It's not an issue. I'm saying that if these people are already paying rent, then their student loans have nothing to do with them affording a house like Sen Warren is suggesting. Cancelling their loans wouldn't suddenly make housing more affordable.
I payed mine off, they can pay theirs too.
*paid
yeah I never got into student loan debt cause I developed schizophrenia so had to deal with that. I wish they would bring jobs back to america like have us making things again. I am lucky cause my meds keep me sane without them I am not myself and many people like me only get worse over time but things are good for me mentally. I can't imagine having mental illness and student loan debt.
News Flash, Einstein: STUDENT BORROWERS HAVE RE-PAID ALL STUDENT DEBT -- TWICE and THEN SOME: Yes, you read correctly: The first time was when taxpayers (which included student borrowers) repaid colleges in full when -- due to a little-known provision of the Affordable Care Act, signed into law in 2010 -- taxpayers PURCHAED (yes, BOUGHT) all federally-held student debt. (Thus, the debt has been paid in full, and cancellation would cost nothing.) The 2ND time the debt was re-paid? Students have repaid taxpayers $1.22 for EVERY $1.00 that taxpayers have lent them, and this at illegally-inflated costs, to boot. (I add that qualifier because many people pay more than 100% on loans due to interest – car loans, house loans, etc. – but NONE of these are illegally-inflated principle costs, which are almost impossible to pay even before interest/fees.)
PROOF:
https://ContractWithAmerica2.com/#college
Student borrows have not repaid their debt if it is still collectively owned by ALL tax payers... If my money bought someone else's debt, the borrow didn't pay it off, they just owe me now instead of their previous lender. Saying they have re-paid already and cancelling their debt would cost nothing is transferring my wealth to them and saying it's a zero sum game because the collective amount of money between the two of us is still the same.
With all due respect, you did NOT read my DOCUMENTED PROOF of my claim: Students have WELL OVER PAID BACK taxpayers. I am a right-wing nut and Personal responsibility Conservative Republican Christian, but I oppose cheating illegal price-gouging, and excessive taxation, with the "tuition = tax" equation proved true by both Sen. Rick Scott's (R-FL) claim that tuition is a tax AND that of other Conservative heavy weights. As an aside, when GOP lawmakers are double standard hypocrites on student loan bankruptcy Uniformity (not a free handout, but rather a Constitutional guaranteed right, see Article I sec 8 cl 4, the UNIFORMITY CLAUSE hello?), we lose to baby-killing, Free Handout, Free College, loan forgiveness, open borders, Liberal tax/spend Democrats. Shoulda listened to ole Flash... GORDON WAYNE WATTS, in hindsight.
Sir, I did read your document and I clicked on both links you posted to make sure. I also read the sources linked on the contractwithamerica2 page. To quote, "The first time was when taxpayers (which included student borrowers) repaid colleges in full when -- due to a little-known provision of the Affordable Care Act, signed into law in 2010 -- taxpayers PURCHAED (yes, BOUGHT) all federally-held student debt. (Thus, the debt has been paid in full, and cancellation would cost nothing.)". As I said above, this is not the student borrower re-paying their loans. Just because the college or lending institution was paid, does not mean the loan itself was repaid. Surely you have had a mortgage that was purchased from the original lender and assumed by a new lender yes? When the new lender buys your mortgage, we do not consider the loan as paid, you just now make your payments to the new lender. In this case, the new lender is the federal government and all taxpayers. The borrower has not repaid the loan, they just owe someone else.
As for the second "reason", that is the fault of the borrow as well to fail to understand the terms of their loans. Take the example from the Reuters source of the "husband of a social worker" that originally borrowed $13,000 in the 80's and now owes over $70K. Assuming he took the loan in 1985 with an interest rate of 6.5% APR, which is not that crazy, he would have owed $71,184 at the time the article was written. That might sound ridiculous but that same $13,000 would $35,585 just from inflation. Students paying back $1.22 for every $1 borrowed is actually fairly low in my opinion given the long terms and the fact that most loans do not require you to start paying back until a period after you have finished school. The Bankruptcy Abuse Act issue is another story...
I do believe college loans are a predatory practice because students do not understand the terms they are signing up for and are just told that they will be successful if they go to college. This is false advertising at best.
Your point is logically correct: Just because taxpayers repaid colleges and universities, that's no guarantee that students repaid taxpayers, but respectfully: You overlooked both the FORBES and REUTERS references which document that students not only repaid taxpayers, but OVER PAID taxpayers, and that at an illegally inflated principal, not even counting interest and fees, only some of which pass the strait face non-usury smell test. That being the case, any further billing is overcharge. That also doesn't account for various Constitutional violations of existing loan contracts when existing contracts illegally had bankruptcy terms altered!
Can you point me to where the Forbes and Reuters references say the principle was illegally inflated? And what do you mean by that? That the cost of tuition has risen faster than inflation or that the principle balance was raised during the life of the loan? The first, while scummy, is certainly not illegal and is an issue with the consumer. The second I have seen no reference to in any of the articles. As I pointed out above, small loans with moderate single digit interest rates can balloon out of control very rapidly when no payments are made for the first several years. If you are referring to the "$1.22 for every $1 borrowed", then I don't consider that overpayment. There is a cost to borrowing money. It's a service. Would you get your oil changed and expect them to only charge you for the oil and filter and do the work for free? It is the same with loans. The principle is the product and the interest is the service charge. You will always have to pay back more than you borrowed on any loan... It seems you are attributing a lack of the understand by the borrow of what they are getting into as an illegal practice by the lenders. Based on the average interest rate and life of these loans, recovering 120% on a defaulted loan that you would have made a 200%+ return on had the loan been paid out according to the terms is still a loss of sorts. In the "husband of a social worker" example for instance, $1.22 for every $1 borrowed is $15,860 recovered. But the inflation value of the original $13,000 today is $35,585. So despite recovering $1.22 for every $1 borrowed, the lender has actually lost $19,725 in buying power.
My sister, for an example of what I think is unacceptable, took out massive loans to live off while getting her degree in veterinary medicine. She took out nearly $300k. When she graduated, that balance had already grown to $450k+ due to accruing interest over the 5-6 years she had the loans and was making no payments. She entered into a payment plan based on the amount she was making. The payment plan allowed her to make minimum payments that were smaller than the interest due. As such, the balance of the loan continued to grow as she was making payments against it. Today she owes closer to $600K and will never pay it off. She is banking entirely on her loans being forgiven after 10 years of federal service. Lenders, the govt in this case, should not be allowed to let that happen. The minimum payment must be one that will pay off the loan according to the original terms. If they can't pay it, then they default on the loan. I will agree with you that there are a lot of scummy things that happen with college loans, like my sister's example and the bankruptcy terms, that do not happen with other loans. But most loans are also backed by something physical, such as a home, that can be repossessed. In terms of a degree, they are only backed by your future earning potential. Lenders should be held liable for lending amounts that are far beyond the value the degree will provide in terms of future earnings.
First, I apologize for overlooking your acknowledgment of both the 1.22 repayment factor and the deceptive advertising aka deceptive lending issue. I'm at the doctor office in the waiting room and distracted. But to answer your question about the price gouging, no the FORBES and REUTERS article don't address that. See, instead, the subsections 5. Price-gouging and 8. COLLEGE was once free:
https://contractwithamerica2.com/#price
And
https://contractwithamerica2.com/#freeREDUX
It college was once Free, but is now SUPER unaffordable, that's prima facia de facto and damning proof of price-gouging. You might read the whole website and/or PDF print / download it if you have time.
(-: Thx 4 having an open mind. The truth is out there. :-)
Do any of these college educated people with liberal arts degrees and thousands of debt have any skills after college to start a business or are they going to be employees
They'd definitely be employees, probably working at starbucks or something